## 邵恒帮你问 | 什么是“游牧青年”？[双语版]

你好，这里是《邵恒头条》，我是邵恒。

今天的#邵恒帮你问#，我为你邀请到的驻场导师是Kevin Lee，他是一个青年文化和市场营销专家，曾经为很多国际巨头在中国市场的业务提供过战略咨询服务，比如耐克、Lululemon、欧莱雅、宝马、宝洁等等。

Hello members of the DeDao community, welcome to Shao Heng Headlines.

This is our first ever English podcast, and I am your host Shao Heng.

Today’s special guest is Kevin Lee, who is an expert in Chinese youth culture, and marketing strategies. Kevin has an impressive track record working with major global companies in China. He has been a strategic consultant to C-level executives at Nike, Lululemon, Loreal, BMW, P&G, to name a few.

Kevin也是“青年志”的首席运营官，这是一家聚焦青年文化的市场调研公司。跟Kevin交流的时候我感受到他们的公司有很强的使命感：他们希望能改变商业公司的模式，让新模式向年轻人传达出更明确的意义感。

He’s the COO of Youthology, which is a consumer insights company focused on understanding the younger generation. They have a strong sense of mission: they believe in the power of youth to drive changes, and therefore strive to disrupt the way companies do businesses to offer more meaning to youth. If you haven’t heard of them – They co-created Taobao Maker Festival with Alibaba.

这一次帮你问，我们收到了非常多的用户提问，今天Kevin的问答会聚焦于出生在1990年后的年轻人身上——包括“90后”、“95后”、“00后”。他会帮你理解这代人的特征以及消费习惯。

We received many questions from you, and today we will focus on understanding the generations born after the year 1990, including Gen Z.

今天也是我们第一次做中英文双语节目，如果你想要听英文版的#邵恒帮你问#，可以将音频调到14:52秒。

### 1. 杨骆：

> Kevin老师好，我是一个心理咨询师。 我在咨询中也面对过很多90后、00后，也接触过很多80及之前的群体。 我的感觉和文中一样，80及以前的人，多少都有一些共同的时代印记，但90后，就非常奇怪了，我目前没有找出“多样多变”以外的特征。 他们有的非常传统， 比一些70后还传统，有的非常前卫。 我想请教的是，除了“互联网原住民”这个客观事实，以及“多样多变”这样模糊的定义外，他们身上有没有什么共同时代特征呢？
> Kevin, I’m a psychologist and provide services for people across different generations. I agree that those born before the 1980s seem to share certain cultural icons (the type that everyone knows). But those born after the 1990s don’t seem to have these common cultural icons. The only words I can think of to describe them are “diverse” and “fluid”. Some of them are very traditional, some are “avant-garde”. I wonder, is there any common trait that this generation has?

Kevin：杨骆，你其实已经抓住了这代年轻人最突出的特征，就是“流动性”。我接下来解释一下，这一代年轻人为什么看起来“流动性”那么高。在青年志，我们管这种特征叫做“迁徙”。

我认为原因是，在这一代年轻人眼里，这是一个机会和风险并存的时代。

你会听到很多年轻人谈论社交媒体、电商、大数据、人工智能，这些东西在5年前、2年前甚至一年前根本就不存在。这意味着机会到处都是，但是也意味着我们很难判断下一个机会到底会在哪出现。

Yangluo, I think you have identified exactly what is common about them. What is common is that they are fluid. At youthology, we say “flowing”. And I would first explain why this generation seems to be so diverse and seems to be flowing. What this generation sees is that there is both disruptive opportunity and risk. You know we hear a lot of young people today talking about how things like rising technology, you know, for example, social media, e-commence,big data, AI. These things don’t even exist 5 years ago. That means opportunities are everywhere but it also means that it’s hard to predict where these opportunities would emerge.

与此同时，这一代年轻人还能看到他们的环境当中有很多压力或者矛盾。比如说经济下行，迅速起来又破灭的泡沫，或者在短期内崛起又倒闭的独角兽公司。所以他们也会意识到，他们生活在风险很高的时代。

On the other hand, this generation can see the world has tension today and the landscape is full of a lot of anxiety. We have things like terrorism and political tension, economic downturns, bubble rise & pop unicorns that rise and fail. Young people are realizing that we live in a risky society.

机会和风险这两个因素加起来，给年轻人打下的烙印是，唯一不变的就是变化。

我们在调研的时候经常问年轻人：你觉得自己5年或者10年之后会在做什么？我们得到的答案几乎总是一样的，那就是：我不知道。“95后”和“00后”很难判断未来什么样，也很难为未来做规划。

Whether we look at risk or whether we look at opportunity, the reality is that everything is changing all the time. So when you ask young person and we ask people all the time where do you see yourself next year or 5 years from now or 10 years from now, we are all given the same answer, which is “I don’t know”. Gene-Z find it very difficult to tell you what your future will look like and it looks very hard for them to plan it and to make sense of it.

比如说我们经常在“90后”甚至“95后”那里听到说，他们进入了中年危机，甚至25岁危机。因为他们可能观察到，周围有35岁左右的人因为自己的创造力不足或者活力不如年轻人而被公司解雇。这样的现象会让他们感到没有职业安全感。

For example, we hear a lot of G-Z talking about a new mid-life crisis, we hear stories today even about how for example, your 35-year-olds are being fired by companies because they show less creativity or less energy than maybe some the younger generations. So even though at the age of 35 they still have a long way of career, but they are already feeling that they have zero career stability.

在做调研的时候，年轻人还会告诉我们，有些人不敢做体检，因为如果发现健康出问题，医疗费用会成为很大的负担，有时候甚至连做体检都是一笔昂贵的开销。

We hear even more extreme stories, for example, younger people are now even talking about even quarter life crisis. Young people are talking about how they are afraid of going to do medical check-ups, doing physicals. Because they are afraid of what they are going find. Young people are talking about:

1. They don’t have the money to do physical check-up.

2. They don’t want to know if there is anything wrong because that would cost more money. And they don’t have money to afford that as well.

我们还观察到一个有意思的新趋势，一些年轻人开始准备“活着的遗嘱”。虽然他们没有面临任何生命威胁，但是有些人已经开始考虑，在我死后我的遗产应该如何分配。这在之前几代年轻人当中是闻所未闻的。

We also have another story. Young people at very early age start talking about maybe I should have a “living will”. Maybe I should prepare for in case I die, and what should happen with my assets. And you would never have heard this in previous generations.

之所以这一代人会有这种意识，正是因为他们认为自己生存在一个高风险的时代，一切事情都在改变。有很多人为此感到焦虑，所以他们在努力寻找解决方案，为自己找到安全感。

But this generation, because they are realizing that they are living in a risky society and things always changes around them, they are feeling so anxious about their life. So they look for ways to cope with and have protection to figure out how to live.

其中一个解决方案就是“迁徙”，或者“流动”，通过这种方式来创造自己想走的路。因为在一个不确定的时代，你唯一能确定的或者能依靠的就是你自己，或者你创造出的东西。

青年志去年出版了一本书，我们管这一代人叫做“游牧青年”，因为他们就像在一个大平原上生活的游牧民族，周围没有某一条确定的路，你往任何方向走都可以。要走哪一个方向，一切都取决于他们自己。所以他们要自己摸索出一条路来。

When everything is uncertain, the flowing is the answer. The only thing you might know is about yourself. The only thing you might depend on is what you create.

Youthology came out with a book last year, and we actually call this generation "Nomads", because "Nomads" are people that you know are standing on the great plains, the place that doesn’t have any routes, you can go to any direction, and that’s actually how this generation feels today.

They feel like the world around them doesn’t have any routes. There is no set path that they can and should go on. The world is constantly changing is all up to them to make the path and set the direction for themselves. And so part of it is about that how do I create this journey? How do I flow to the direction and flow to the ways that make sense for me?

管理学大师彼得•德鲁克曾经说过这样一句话：预测未来最有效的方式，就是自己创造它。这句话不仅对于商业适用，其实也同样也可以解释现在的年轻人在做的事情。

There is actually a famous saying by Peter Drucker, he says it for business. He says, “The best way to predict your future is to create it.” But in reality, it is not just for business today. For individuals of the younger generation, they do exactly the same thing.

比如你会发现，对现在的年轻人来说，离职更普遍了。我们观察到一个新的趋势，叫做Minternship，翻译过来是“中期实习”。也就是说，又不少年轻人会从一个行业离职，切换到一个完全不同的领域，去获取全新的技能。为了完成转型，他们可能会到新领域去做实习生。

比如我们就了解到这样一个案例：一个咖啡师在30岁的时候辞职，转而要去当律师。对于年青一代来说，这种切换并不奇怪，因为他们知道生活当中随时有新机遇，他们知道，自己在一生当中会有好几种职业，好几个发展方向。

所以当我们说年轻人在“迁徙”、在“流动”，本质上是说他们在不断地进行自我迭代，在发现新的自我。

For example, you know, actually young people are being much more proactive in leaving their jobs. We have heard people talking about “Minternship” or being a mid-term-intern. A lot of young people are leaving their jobs, they are retooling, they are changing their skill sets. For example, you might be a coffee barrister. At 30 years old, the barrister decided to study to become a lawyer.

That is really unheard of in previous generations. But in this generation, people are constantly thinking about different careers or directions, because there are constantly new opportunities in life.

So when we talking about flowing, we are really talking about evolving.

### 2. 刘淑清：

> 当代青年人没有经历物质匮乏的时代，他们追求的核心点是什么？精神层面的满足，通过什么来完成？
> The current generation of young people never experienced any periods of scarcity. What goals are they going after? What do they do to satisfy their desire for spiritual growth?

Kevin：要说什么是“95后”、“00后”的追求，我会说是“本真”，Authenticity，或者是“真实的自我”。刚才我们说了，这一代人是“游牧青年”，如果所有的路需要他们自己走出来，自己为自己做决策，那最关键的不就是了解自我吗？所以他们做的很多事情，都是为了更深地挖掘自己是谁。

I think the best way to describe what this generation is desiring, is Authenticity. And in my previous question I have talked about how this generations is wanting to flow. If I am going to make my own way in the world, if there are no paths in front of me, the core question then becomes do I know who I am?

我们很多人会觉得，这并不难啊，但其实对他们这一代人来说，真没有那么容易。“95后”、“00后”很敏感地意识到，他们自己时时被身边的环境影响，比如说很多人会谈论阿里巴巴、京东这样的商业公司的算法，他们会质疑算法的推荐到底是我自己想要的东西呢，还是说他们在强加给我一些东西。

Other generations might think it’s easy to know who you are. But it’s actually harder than it looks. Gen Z are equally aware of how greatly influenced they are by the world around them. They know that the world is extremely gamified. For example, a lot of young people talked about the algorithms used by Alibaba or JD. So young people are wondering are they recommending what I want, or is it just the algorithm giving me the desires?

在青年志我们观察到，从去年开始快手变得越来越受年轻人欢迎，为什么？我们发现很多年轻人意识到他们自己处在“信息茧房”当中。比如在抖音上，抖音总会推荐相似的内容，你看了一些小狗的视频，那你可能会一直接收到小狗视频的推荐，这点我们都体验过。

但是快手的算法并不是这样的。他们的算法更侧重“公平”，注重给草根的用户以更多的曝光机会，用户看到的内容也更加多元化。

And we see in last year Kuaishou has risen in popularity, why? I heard a lot of young people saying that they feel like they are in this “information cocoon”. For example Douyin gives them exactly what they have seen before. You start look at dog videos, a thousand dog videos come up to keep you watching. But a lot of people today are saying they really appreciate Kuaishou because the Kuaishou algorithms are actually more equalized to show more grassroot creators, more diverse content.

你想想看，这一代年轻人会基于算法来选择平台——这种精明或者复杂度，是之前的年轻人不具备的。他们也会主动驾驭、运用不同平台的算法来满足探索自我的需求。

It is crazy that how this generation chooses platforms based on algorithms - that level of sophistication is something that previous generations never had before. They know different algorithm gives them different things, and they are gonna search which algorithm will give them the best advantage e to explore themselves better.

除此之外，年轻人还有一个用来认识自我的重要工具，就是创造。当你创造一个东西的时候，你会展示你的视角、你的个性，而在今天创造是一件如此容易的事，比如说在社交媒体上、在自己的iPad上等等。年轻人也会充分利用这些工具和平台。

The other part to Authenticity of finding yourself and knowing yourself is about creation. One of the most powerful and effective ways of knowing yourself is creation. And today it is so easy for everyone to create, on our smartphones, our iPads and social media. So young people are actively doing this.

今年我们观察到一个有意思的趋势，那就是有不少在大城市的年轻人辞掉工作，选择回到他们自己家乡的小镇、村落。原因之一就是他们开始意识到，他们自己的家乡也是一种机遇，也可以用来创造，是他们自我身份的一部分。

This year we start to see a lot of young people who leave the jobs in the big cities and go back to their hometowns, even their villages, because they start to realize their village heritage is also an opportunity for them.

比如我们了解到的一个案例，是一个在腾讯游戏部门工作的年轻人，辞职之后回到村子里做了一个农民。他在快手上直播自己的生活，创业卖水果。另外一个案例也是一个年轻人，辞职之后回到了陕西的县城，成立了三家社交媒体公司。他们在抖音上会发布关于食物的视频，有600万粉丝。

We saw a young person from Tencent, who was working at their gaming division, left his job and became a farmer. And actually today he does a live streaming on Kuaishou and has a business selling fruits. We have another story of another friend, who went back to a village in Shannxi. This person has created three social media companies. They do food videos on Douyin and they have 6 million followers.

所以你会看到这些年轻人正在意识到，家乡的根也是他们的自我、本真的一部分。而这部分的自己也可以成为用来创造的机会。

And all of sudden, young people are saying ah yeah, everything about me, including my hometown, including where I come from could possibly be my opportunities to create.

### 3. Jourdan泆难平、小清澈、谷鸿 、Damon：

> 为什么年轻人会对漫画、二次元、球鞋、手办等等文化那么着迷？甚至有些人不惜花重金或者贷款购买相关的产品？ 这些偏好和消费习惯，我们如何理解？
> Jourdan, Xiao Qingche, Gu Ming and Damon: If I may summarize their questions, they are asking why the younger generation would be so passionate about things like manga, ACGN, sports shoes and garage kit? They spend an exorbitant amount of money on these products, sometimes even borrowing to pay for it. How do we interpret these preferences and consumption habits?

Kevin：没错，你们所描述的的确是这一代年轻人突出的特点——他们对某些事物非常痴迷，而且很愿意为此投入重金。我在前面已经说到，这一代年轻人希望能通过不断地迁徙、流动来探索自我，那么他们达到这层目的的方式之一，就是让自己获得多元化的体验。

这就是为什么他们会重度参与到各种各样的文化、娱乐方式当中去。

Thank you all for your questions. You spotted some real behaviors of this generation that really set them apart: they are really into what they into. And they are really willing to spend money on it.

For me to explain it , it links easily into what I have previously described: this generations is exploring themselves and they want to know themselves. One of the key ways for them to do that is to put themselves in to a diversity of experiences, a diversity of subject matters. So that why you see this generation go deep into many many cultures and interests and hobbies.

95后是第一代“数据原住民”，你要知道对于他们来说，线上的世界跟线下的世界一样真实。在线上的世界里他们可以成为各种角色，获得各种身份，并不是他们在扮演谁，而是这些角色、身份代表着他们自己个性的不同维度，能让他们进行自我探索。

G-Z is really the first digital native. So for them the online world is just as real as the offline world. But the great thing is that in the online world actually you can be different personalities, different identities all at the same time. And they are not different personalities- they are just different sides of one personality. So the online world gives the young person a huge diversity of play spaces to explore different facets of themselves.

B站我们都知道在年轻人当中非常受欢迎。起初，B站是一个硬核的二次元社区，但后来圈子逐渐扩大。在B站你仍然可以看二次元的内容，但是它真正吸引人的地方在于B站上有各种各样的小群体，你可以遇到各种各样不同的人。比如说B站特别受欢迎的一类社区是同人社区，也就是粉丝使用知名的IP自行创造出新的剧情、产品等等。另外汉服的社区也很受欢迎，你会看到年轻人上传的各种关于穿戴汉服、依照古时候的审美或者风俗生活的视频。对于“95后”、“00后”来说，B站是一个能让他们同时探索很多种文化、身份的地方。

You know for example, one of the most popular places you can find young people’s content entertainment today is content from Bilibili. Bilibili starts off being for hardcore ACGN, for enemy comes from games and novels today of course it has been expanded a much broader platform for a lot of mass entertainment and media. The great thing is that yes you can still get your manga, your entertainment there, but what you find when you get into BiliBili are all of this diversity of sub-culture and groups of what they are doing. And you can actually dive into them and explore them for steps and meet people in those cultures and of course you can explore who you are in.

不仅年轻人的娱乐如此，在消费上，年轻人的目的也是相似的。

你们都在问为什么他们愿意在某些事上花那么多钱，比如说炒鞋。你要知道今天年轻人肯为之花钱的东西往往背后有很丰富的文化故事，甚至是历史，还有一个强大的社群。比如说球鞋其实跟街头文化、嘻哈文化是紧密联系在一起的。

You know they have a lot of stories and histories behind it. There are a lot of people participating in that culture and its whole world of itself. You know that’s why for example we see sneaker culture is now actually expanded into a lot of street culture, so that is a lot more than just sneaker today. It has the whole history it has great influences from things like American hip-pop and other types of areas that all mixed together to talk about the way of life that’ s why the value it can arise up because it is not just about the shoes itself it about how I participate in this culture.

我还要澄清一点，在消费上，年轻人可不单单是在花钱买东西，他们也在卖东西挣钱。比如说在小红书上，有一个小众社区是“再造LV”，用户会把LV包包改造之后，再转手卖给别人。这其实也是他们表达创造力、以及和其他人互动的方式。

You know today it’s not just about the rise of sneakers the rise of these products, you know now young people are buying and selling. On Xiaohongshu, you can actually see a whole hashtag meaning called “remade LV” There is whole culture now around taking LV products and cutting it up and remaking it into something else and of course selling it into other people. Again we are talking about creating today, and this is way for me to explore and express my own identity and also a way for me to engage and interact with other people in the culture as I buy and sell.

这么一说你可能就会明白，为什么年轻人会为了某些商品、爱好投入重金。因为他们买的不是商品本身，而是自己认同的文化身份。这些当然比商品本身的价值更高，这也是为什么他们愿意为某些东西付出大价钱。

So you can see why it’s so valuable to them. It’s not just simply a shoe that they wear, but it’s actually the cultures, values and the lifestyles that they hold so valuable and so dear to themselves. It’s speak to their identity. So when you talk about identity, it’s with a lot, and with a lot more than, let’s just say, regular shoes.

我还要强调一点的是，传统来说，我们认为消费就是花钱，但是今天的年轻人对于消费的看法是，这是一种投资。不是金融市场那种赚钱的投资，而是对自己的投资，为自己探索出更广阔的可能性。比如说很多年轻人开始过间隔年Gap Year，也就是上学期间休学一段时间去探索自己喜欢的事，或者进行全球旅行，这些都是他们对于自我的投资。

他们对于“价值”的定义跟以前不同了——有价值的东西，是能让他们自己探索世界和探索自我的东西。花钱不再是为了地位或者单纯为了娱乐。

Now the last thing I want to talk about, we often originally see consumption as spending money. But actually today, young people really start to see consumption in part as investment. Now we are not talking about traditional investment just about making more money, but it’s really about the investment in myself. What I consume should be investing in who I am and opening more possibilities. Young people are taking gap years, they are quitting their jobs, they are spending all their money, for example, travelling all the world, really trying to have a diverse experience to invest themselves to grow their perspective and growing their experiences. And so young people really have shifted their understanding of what’s really valuable. Valuable is much more about new chances to explore myself, new chances to explore the world. It’s less about spending the money to get status, or spending money to just have pleasure in life.

当然，做有价值的事情不一定意味着多花钱。我们观察到的另外一个趋势是二手货的市场火起来了，比如在快手、咸鱼上有很多年轻人在做二手货的交易。年轻人在乎的是，我自己来定义做这件事的价值和意义。

You know, it’s not just about spending more money. This generation is also becoming more critical and more self-reflective about what money means to them. And a lot of people realize that explore myself does not need to cost money. So we are actually seeing another different type of trend, where young people are seeing I can actually explore myself but I can do it cheaply, but just also as wonderfully. For example, young people are now really interest in things like vintage and second-hand market. They are look at, for example Kuaishou, or they are looking at Xianyu. These are great platforms that they are seeing I can find great value in products that I can still consume, but I don’t need to spend super-high lot of money, and I can still find the meaning and value I want, because I’m defining the meaning. But it’s really about building a meaningful life and really looking at the diversity what that could be.

这些特征构成了我们所说的“游牧青年”一代，他们会创造自己的路、给自己的生活找到意义。

This is the “nomad generation” that is going to create their own path and make their own way forward. and that way forward is about building meaning in life.

好了，以上就是Kevin Lee对于“90后”、“95后”、“00后”的文化和消费习惯的思考。总结一下，这一代年轻人是“游牧青年”，他们不确定未来是什么样的，所以一直在“迁徙”、“流动”，通过这种方式来寻找意义和自我身份。在消费上，他们不再那么看重地位或者物质富足，那些他们认为有价值的产品，是能够让他们探索自我身份以及遇到多元化社群的产品。

Alright, those were insights from Kevin Lee, COO of Youthology. To summarize, Kevin has described the defining traits of the younger generation, especially Generation Z – which broadly includes people who are born after 1995.

They are “nomads”, meaning that they are unsure about what the future holds, and are flowing constantly to find meaning and their self-identity. In consumption they care less about material wealth or status. What products do they find valuable? The ones that allow them to explore different facets of their own identities, or to meet communities that reflect that diversity.

我问Kevin，对于那些要和这一代年轻人打交道的父母、或者要管理这一代年轻人的上司，以及想用产品和服务来吸引这代年轻人的企业家，能不能给一些实用的建议？

I’ve also asked Kevin, if he can offer one-sentence advices for parents, corporate leaders and business owners who want to engage with this generation. Here are his final advices:

第一， 对于父母来说，要和这一代人打交道，必须要知道“玩”对于他们的重要性，因为他们正是通过“玩”来探索自我的身份。

第二， 对于要领导这一代的上司来说，别做他们的老板，做他们的导师。当你给年轻人分派任务的时候，一定要告诉他们，这项任务的意义所在。

第三， 对于想卖货的企业家来说，你要能定义你对未来的想象和愿景。年轻人并不知道未来什么样，但他们会被那些有愿景的公司或者人所吸引。

1. for parents, you must know the value of “play” for this generation, because it is through playing that they explore their own identities.

2. For corporate leaders, don’t be their boss, but be their mentor. And always, always tell them the meaning of a particular task.

3. For business owners, define a vision for what you think the future looks like. The younger generation don’t have a ready answer themselves, but they will flock to those who do.

好了，这就是本期的#邵恒帮你问#，我是邵恒，我们明天见。

Alright, that’s it for today’s Shao Heng Headlines. I hope you enjoyed it and I will see you tomorrow.

![图片](https://piccdn3.umiwi.com/img/201912/21/201912212218407354176520.jpg)
